Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 211
03/24/2009 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB23 | |
| SB129 | |
| HJR19 | |
| SB126 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 126 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 129 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| HJR 19 | |||
| = | SB 23 | ||
SB 129-RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
9:56:21 AM
CHAIR MENARD announced the consideration of SB 129.
MICHAEL ROVITO, Staff to Senator Menard, Alaska State
Legislature, said SB 129 is in response to a national movement
to mandate fire sprinkler systems in single or double-family
residences. These systems will cost from $3.00 to $5.00 per
square foot if they are built into a new home. It is excessive
and will put a financial burden on a homebuyer. Changes in
residential construction, like emergency escapes, circuit
breakers, fire blocking, and draft stopping, have dramatically
dropped the number of fatal fires in the United States. About 33
percent of Alaska residents are on private wells, and sprinklers
will require larger wells and other costly changes. A sprinkler
can be set off erroneously and can cause mold -- a serious
health risk. Smoke alarms have a proven track record, and if
they malfunction they won't douse the home with water.
Homebuilders and real estate agents support the bill. "Many
citizens have contacted us concerned about the added cost to a
home because of any mandating of sprinkler systems."
9:59:45 AM
SENATOR KOOKESH asked if there is a looming mandate. Why are we
doing this?
MR. ROVITO said this is a proactive response to a national
movement. The International Residential Code (IRC) "is often
adopted widely throughout the United States. The individuals
involved in determining these codes have pushed the mandate." So
the bill is an attempt to stop anyone mandating sprinklers.
CHAIR MENARD said those who oppose this bill do so because they
want to keep the decision at the local level.
10:01:20 AM
SENATOR PASKVAN said his concern is that "a municipality may not
require a fire protection system." And subsection (b) says it
"applies to home rule and general law municipalities." He spoke
with a building official in Fairbanks and he understands why the
legislature could tell state fire marshals they can't mandate
sprinklers for Alaska's districts, but he asked why it shouldn't
be left at the local level. He appreciates being proactive, but
even if there were valid reasons for requiring sprinklers in the
future, this would prohibit it.
MR. ROVITO said the original intent was to prevent general
mandates. He understands what Senator Paskvan is saying about
making decisions on a case-by-case basis.
SENATOR PASKVAN said if technology is at a point that it can be
done, a municipality would be barred from saying it is
reasonable to include sprinklers in a residence. "Why is the
state telling us we can't make a decision at the local level?"
10:04:06 AM
CHAIR MENARD said there are firefighters that will testify. The
bill doesn't prohibit anyone from installing a sprinkler system.
"It's just one of those mandates that we're trying to avoid."
WARREN CUMMINGS, State Vice President, Western Fire Chiefs
Association, Fairbanks, said he is submitting written testimony.
Sprinklers are not as expensive as was mentioned. He put an
addition on his house and the sprinkler system cost $2,786, and
he has had no accidental discharges in the 30 years he's had it.
CHAIR MENARD asked the square footage of his house.
MR. CUMMINGS said his house totals 2,800 square feet, and it all
has the sprinkle system. The original system was installed in
1979 and the addition was in 1994. It was done by a contractor.
MR. CUMMINGS said he is sending a newspaper article of a family
of five perishing in a trailer fire. It is a good example of
what can be prevented by sprinkler systems.
JIM HILL, Fire Chief, Ketchikan Fire Department, Ketchikan, said
sprinkler systems save lives. "We've been fighting this battle
for years and years." He would like to keep the discretion at
the local level. Rural communities and places without water
systems may have issues. Working with builders and residents is
good. "Don't take our local powers away from us."
10:07:52 AM
CHAIR MENARD asked if he has a sprinkler system in his home.
MR. HILL said, no, but he would love to install one.
DAVID MILLER, Alaska State Fire Fighters Association, Sitka,
said the association is opposed to SB 129. That decision ought
to be left at the local level. Houses are being built closer
together again. As a fire starts, it is harder to keep it away
from neighboring houses. The faster those fires can be attacked,
the better. Sprinklers can save other structures and lives. A
fire in Washington started in one structure and four others
burned down. New lightweight construction materials burn
quicker. When he started fighting fires 25 years ago, there was
about 17 minutes to get to the fire and stop it. It is now only
4 or 5 minutes.
10:09:38 AM
JEFF TUCKER, Interior Fire Chiefs Association, said he opposes
this bill. There is no national mandate to require residential
sprinkler systems. The state has no power to adopt it. This bill
prohibits local options from adopting this proven technology.
JEFF WILCHEK, Chinook Fire Inc, Anchorage, spoke in opposition
to SB 129. The cost of a sprinkler system is comparable to
carpeting a home. It gives a home immediate fire protection. It
saves lives, including firefighter lives. He has a sprinkler
system and has never had an accidental discharge. It gives peace
of mind for him and his family.
10:11:48 AM
MIKE CHMIELEWSKI, Council Member, City of Palmer, spoke in
opposition. Because of home rule status, Palmer adopts the
building code with exceptions. This is the first time that a
local option is being taken away. The bill said it applies to
home rule. He can't speak to the merits of sprinklers, but
clearly there is enough merit to warrant discussion. He doesn't
have a sprinkler system in his home, but this discussion has
generated thoughts of putting one in.
PAT THOMPSON, Anchorage, said this is an unnecessary step by the
legislature. The codes are developed nationally and adopted
locally, and there is always the option to amend, adjust, and
delete whatever suits the local codes. "And I don't think that
the legislature or this committee should ... get mired in this
discussion, nor should it get mired in discussions with things
like R-values of insulation or snow loads for roofs." Smoke
alarms have been touted as great things, and they have cut fire
deaths in half. They started out being expensive, and the same
people who are saying that smoke alarms are great today are the
same ones who were fighting them back then. In the 1970s smoke
alarms cost $200 each, and that is $1,000 in today's money.
Eventually they became standard, and he can't imagine anyone in
a house without a smoke alarm.
10:15:01 AM
DAVID TYLER, State Fire Marshal, Anchorage, said previous
testimony stated that he had the authority to bring the IBC in
place. That is not true; he gets his authority from statute,
which specifically limits him on what code he can adopt. One
concern with SB 129 is the effect on assisted living and daycare
facilities that provide care between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. He would
not be allowed to require sprinkler systems for those. "That's
the heart of what we try to do is protect citizens and, in this
case, citizens that don't necessarily have the ability to
protect themselves."
DAVID R. OWENS, Owner, Owens Inspector Service, Palmer, said he
is also representing the Mat-Su Homebuilders. He has been a
building inspector for 25 years, and 10 of those years were with
the municipality of Anchorage. He supports SB 129. With the
upgrades in building standards in the last 10 years, including
smoke and CO detectors, fire separation between the house and
garage, and "the [indecipherable] protection that we do build
very safe one and two-family dwellings." It is unreasonable to
ask the general public to install sprinklers.
NICK BAKIC, Service Manager, ACCEL Fire Systems, Anchorage, said
he is opposed to the bill. Three months ago the governor's
operating budget stated that Alaska has a history of tragic fire
loss, and the state is experiencing an increase in civilian
fatalities due to fire. Fire deaths increased from 12 in fiscal
year 2004, to 20 in 2006, and to 24 in 2007. All but three
occurred in residential structures. Residential fires continue
to be Alaska's largest number of structure fires, accounting for
75 percent of the state's total. Of 14 deaths, 13 occurred in
residential dwellings. The Division of Fire and Life Safety has
no authority to enforce single family code requirements. This
bill would keep them from being able to, and there will continue
to be a rise in deaths. Smoke detectors are easy to disable by
pulling out the battery. The sprinkler system doesn't require a
battery and is always there. There was a 10-year study in
Scottsdale, Arizona, and requiring sprinklers saved lives and
money. It is proved beyond doubt that sprinklers save money for
the municipality. The International Association of Fire Chiefs
has definitions for reactive and proactive fire protection.
Reactive is traditional fire protection where a problem occurs
because of building codes, and there is hope that the fire
department can beat the clock and arrive soon enough to have a
positive impact. Proactive fire protection is embracing new
technology, like automatic sprinklers and early detection
systems, combined with aggressive code enforcement and strong
public education.
10:20:52 AM
BOB WEINSTEIN, Mayor, City of Ketchikan, said Ketchikan is not a
bastion of over-regulation by the government. The city recently
went through an extended public process for updating the fire
and building codes. One of the largest issues was whether
sprinklers should be required in residential buildings. After
extensive dialogue with the local builders association, the city
developed mutually-agreeable language so that sprinklers would
be required in homes that have no access to fire fighting
equipment and no reasonable alternative. It is a very important
issue in Ketchikan where many homes are on wooden staircases or
steep terrain. "We have lost such homes to fire because of lack
of access." The fires threaten neighboring homes as well. SB 129
would veto the actions of the Ketchikan city council and have an
adverse impact on the safety of the citizens. Please let
communities make their own decisions.
10:22:46 AM
PAUL MICHELSOHN, Builder and Director, Alaska State Homebuilders
Board, Anchorage, said he is a member of the ICC and the NAHB
code board. "Fire sprinklers do go to sleep." What is to prevent
a homeowner from shutting it off like shutting off a toilet?
Deaths have been reduced nationally by over 70 percent in the
past 20 years due to the better quality of homes being built in
America. The fire in Washington that was mentioned above would
not have been helped by a sprinkler system "because a sprinkler
supposedly protects the inside of the residence not the
outside." If a house burns from the outside, a sprinkler is not
going to do a thing for it. There are a lot of older homes in
Alaska. "If the statistics were brought forth accurately, you
will see that the fire deaths occurring in Alaska are in houses
that are older than 20 or 25 years old. They don't even have
proper water systems, no less the ability to put a sprinkler
system in." The sprinkler system code is targeted at new
construction and not at trailers. Trailers can't have sprinklers
because there isn't enough insulation in the walls to keep the
water from freezing. Smoke alarms and education save lives. "If
the fire coalition put some of their efforts into education of
the public; telling them about smoke detectors; telling them
about exit routes; telling them about safety of fires, I think
it would be a much more reasonable request than to request
sprinkler systems." Today's testifiers said that sprinklers are
not law now, and that is correct. The law was passed last
September to be put into the main body of the 2009 IRC. From
2000 to 2006 it was in the appendix. The appendix is just a
guideline. Now the fire coalition was successful in getting it
into the body of the code. Once the state adopts the IRC - there
is talk in the legislature now about adopting a state code - and
the state fire marshal adopts the code, then the local
jurisdictions will not have the authority to amend it out. A
local jurisdiction can amend or adjust the code to be more
stringent, not less. He is in favor of the bill. "We don't want
to take the risk of having to come down here in a year from now
and then talk about throwing the entire code out, which is
happening in various states." This same bill has passed in North
Dakota and is awaiting a signature from the governor.
10:27:04 AM
SENATOR MEYER said he agrees that most homes in Anchorage that
catch fire are old homes and mobile homes. Smoke detectors give
false alarms. Can the same thing happen with the sprinklers?
MR. MICHELSOHN said the heat has to melt the metal to release
the spring. They can be broken very easily with Frisbees, tennis
racquets, and clothes hangers. "That is the fear, and by law a
homeowner is not allowed to shut the water system off if a
sprinkler system activates." A person of authority has to come
and shut it down. It flows from six to nine gallons per minute,
so mold and heavy condensation will be a problem.
10:29:02 AM
CHAIR MENARD said she built a professional building with a
firewall. She asked him to describe firewalls.
MR. MICHELSOHN said they are called fire separation walls for
commercial buildings. "That is happening on residential where
someone said the houses are getting closer and closer together."
The code has been reduced from five feet to three feet between
properties. At three feet, eaves have to be protected by
sheetrock and fire-rated plywood. In some instances fire glass
is required. These are options. A person can install fire-rated
sidings. The exterior can have stucco. There are many options
besides fire sprinklers. Sprinklers create a false sense of
security to the occupant. Assisted living and day care centers
aren't regulated under this bill because they are commercial.
10:31:00 AM
SENATOR PASKVAN said the Ketchikan mayor said they dealt with
the issue on a local level.
MR. MICHELSOHN said he flew to Ketchikan four times to testify.
The local authority tried to require sprinkler systems for all
residential houses. "The building official has told the people,
well you got your way last year, but it's in the code now, so
we'll have it again." That is the wrong attitude because it was
a good discussion. Ketchikan has steep wooden steps and
walkways. It was agreed that those areas would have sprinklers
because of access problems. But a block and a half away it
wasn't necessary. A subdivision in Anchorage has been mentioned.
A block below it and the one above it do not require a sprinkler
system; just one block does because that is the agreement that
the developer made with the municipality to get the subdivision.
"They could've put hydrants in; they could have put assist
pumps; they could put better quality construction; so there's
pros and cons that this does not take away from the
municipality. The option is always there."
10:33:26 AM
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if Mr. Michelsohn believes that a local
jurisdiction should have a say in adopting any building code.
MR. MICHELSOHN said he is in favor of any municipality adopting
the code and being able to amend it as it sees fit. But if the
state adopts the IRC in its entirety, then no jurisdiction in
the state will be able to amend out fire sprinklers.
CHAIR MENARD asked if he sees this as a proactive bill.
MR. MICHELSOHN said he sees the bill as preventative
maintenance. "I foresee some other issues coming down the road."
SENATOR KOOKESH asked if "we would be preempted from doing
anything" if the state adopts that code. In order to adopt
something, a decision would be made. "It doesn't just get forced
on us; we'd have the same discussion."
10:35:08 AM
MR. MICHELSOHN said the codes that are currently adopted in the
state are the IBC, UPC, UMC, IFC, NEC, and the IEECC.
SENATOR KOOKESH said he is not talking about those; he is
talking about the one--
MR. MICHELSOHN interrupted and said the IRC. "I don't know your
process. We're trying to figure that out right now. What is the
process to get a code adopted statewide?"
SENATOR KOOKESH said if the legislature had to adopt a code
statewide, "we, the legislature, would have that determination
in front of us." Nobody else would, so the legislature would
have an option--
MR. MICHELSOHN interjected, "I don't know if that's a true
statement, sir."
SENATOR KOOKESH asked who makes a decision that would override
the state legislature.
MR. MICHELSOHN said he asked someone in the Department of Labor
because the codes are split with it and the state fire marshal.
He doesn't know if it goes in front of the legislature or not.
SENATOR KOOKESH said, "OK, then for you to come here and say
that it's going to be adopted is a misnomer because you don't
even know that."
MR. MICHELSOHN said, "I said we're trying to prevent this in the
event that it gets adopted, because a lot of the areas are going
to try to get this code adopted. It's in right now, being
proposed."
10:36:31 AM
ANNIE CARPENETI, Attorney, Criminal Division, Department of Law,
said she works with the fire marshal to adopt these codes. The
process begins with the fire marshal sending her the codes that
are adopted by reference, "and you have to go through the codes
because they except from the adoption by reference various
sections of the code that the fire marshal does not want to
adopt by reference." She believes that the fire marshal would
not be able to adopt any provision that deals with one and two-
resident buildings, because that is not part of the statutory
authority given to the fire marshal. "They are not allowed to
regulate residences under four units." These are adopted by
regulation, which first go through the regulatory process of
public notice, hearings, and comments. She goes through the
codes, section by section. She showed a book of the regulations
adopted by the fire code and it has the IBC with exceptions. The
exceptions go on for pages and pages. The legislature has the
authority to change them.
10:39:09 AM
SENATOR KOOKESH said he saw a lot of letters of support. There
was a lot of testimony in opposition, so he asked if Chair
Menard got any letters in opposition.
CHAIR MENARD said, "We did not."
MR. ROVITO said he was contacted by the AML [Alaska Municipal
League], "and just had a brief conversation, and that was the
end of that. None of these people had ever contacted me."
SENATOR KOOKESH said he never expected that much opposition
because it wasn't in the record.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked for clarification. If the state fire
marshal cannot regulate a building under four units, is there
any need for this?
CHAIR MENARD said that is a good question.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked why the local jurisdictions shouldn't
fight the battles based upon their own issues. Since the fire
marshal cannot regulate these buildings, he wondered if this is
even necessary.
10:41:17 AM
SENATOR KOOKESH said he likes local options, and he hasn't yet
seen a problem here that needs to be corrected.
CHAIR MENARD said the next committee of referral is the Senate
Labor and Commerce committee.
SENATOR MEYER asked the chair if she wanted to move the bill and
do the clean-up work in the next committee. He moved SB 129 with
attached fiscal notes from committee with individual
recommendations.
SENATOR KOOKESH objected. This bill has problems and he hopes to
see it worked on in the Labor and Commerce committee. He is
concerned about local options, the definitions, and whether this
is really needed. This is not a lurking problem. He said he has
always been opposed to legislation that just adds to the
bureaucracy. He removed his objection and SB 129 moved out of
committee.
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